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Race Start Analysis Austrian GP 2017 Did Valtteri Bottas Jump the Start?

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Anthony Davidson is at the Skypad to review all the major talking points from the Austrian Grand Prix and looks at how Valtteri Bottas secured his second F1 win. Check out more videos at: http://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/f1 SKY F1 2017 FORMULA WORLD
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Text Comments (476)
Firemarioflower (1 year ago)
kickinbackinOC (1 year ago)
Thumbs down. This YT video here makes it look like the lights go out, and the wheels start turning in the same frame. That is deceptive. There are other videos, that clearly show the wheels turning a few degrees BEFORE THE RED LIGHTS GO OUT. I don't care, though...I like Valteri, and think he's doing a fantastic job at Mercedes.
Nivola 1953 (1 year ago)
I thought the FIA said Bottas car moved 2/100 sec after lights off, but this looks like 2/1000 to me, anyway this in the past now
Mi K (1 year ago)
Das Urteil der FIA war falsch. Bottas ist bei Rot gestartet. Normalstart ist, dass man sieht, dass die roten Ampeln aus sind, und dann startet man - eine Reaktionszeit unter 1 Zehntel Sekunde ist dabei unmöglich, wissenschaftlich erwiesen, und so wird es auch in anderen Sportarten geahndet. In der Leichtathletik begeht ein Läufer einen Frühstart, wenn er die Startbewegung beginnt, bevor er das Startsignal (in der Regel einen Schuss) gehört hat. Hierbei registriert eine Elektronik permanent den Druck der Füße auf die Startblöcke. Wird eine Reaktion des Sportlers früher als 100 Millisekunden nach Abgabe des Startsignals festgestellt, signalisiert die Elektronik einen Fehlstart. Im Schwimmen ist es ähnlich. Eine Reaktionszeit noch VOR Erlöschen der Ampel ist derart unmöglich, dass man dafür noch nicht einmal die Wissenschaft braucht. Bottas hat einen klaren, sichtbaren Frühstart hingelegt und dadurch, dass das von der FiA nicht geahndet wurde, Vettel geschlagen. Vettel und Ferrari wurden dadurch um ihren Sieg und um 7 Punkte und möglicherweise um die Weltmeisterschaft betrogen. Vettel ist darüber völlig zu Recht zornig. Das Urteil der FIA dazu ist eine Farce, eine absolute Frechheit. Vettel, der klar Betrogene, muss sich dafür nicht auch noch saublöde Sprüche anhören.
Bence Jávorszki-Farkas (1 year ago)
How he can't pronounce Vettel's name :D
ProximityX (1 year ago)
If Vettel had made such a start then all the pathetic delusional Hamilton fanboys would be screaming and accusing FIA of favoring Ferrari and Vettel, but now they all just magically accept the explanation given by FIA because it was Bottas. Fuck off Hamilton fanboys, sincerely, just fuck off! Hamilton fanboys are the most poisonous fuckers ever.
Negative Kelvin (1 year ago)
This is a horrible analysis as you have to show a couple of frames before the lights went out to conclude whether of not the wheels moved ahead of time. You can't just start on the frame that the lights went out and show that the wheels moved because that doesn't prove that they didn't move earlier. Show more frames or get bent
UnWastedMovies (1 year ago)
They seriously went and edit it? That's not one frame, and you convienently leave out the fact that he already started moving prior to the first frame. Sky going through much trouble to get Mercedes on top
Thomas Horsemanko (1 year ago)
Or it's the best start ever by a driver
blaster980YT (1 year ago)
High reaction speed?
Phossil HS (1 year ago)
This makes me curious about one thing, do you guys think there could be doping in F1, I mean substance that can improve your concentration or reaction time ? (I'm not saying Bottas uses doping or something, just wondering if it's possible in F1 in general)
Mark Butcher (1 year ago)
Michael J (1 year ago)
Thank you for the bullshit analysis
nok pos (1 year ago)
shit on skysports. let the real video play one bottas ! not that lights you put on
Z Coleman (1 year ago)
the frames are less than a tenth of a second, how can it be a reaction time of .2 when he drops the clutch in the exact frame the lights go out, it was a prediction or he was cheating.
Office Chair (1 year ago)
Guys stop debating that much about it . Bottas took a risk , it payed off .
Filipe Dinis (1 year ago)
Mercury (1 year ago)
welp no can do, judges and bottas said that it wasnt :/
Christian Svendsen (1 year ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tken_aR8bD8 i do not say any more!
muhammad shofwan (1 year ago)
it's called super perfect start
D V (1 year ago)
I'm tired of all these Bunch of ginger Brits that keeps defending Merc and its pilots. Objectivity??? FIA should ban redhead reporters from the F1 paddock
Miami Rize (1 year ago)
BIG BS! Mimimi on high level!
Shabba Ukelele (1 year ago)
respect fia's decision and shut your piehole. period
ChangeHumanity (1 year ago)
If anyone watched the race they would understand that the Stewart's used the telemetry data and determine didn't he jumped
TheScuderiaF (1 year ago)
스카이스포츠 이것들 프레임 쪼개서 안보여주네ㅋㅋ 라이트 오프전에 움직인 프레임은 숨김
tito yolo (1 year ago)
I think if you're playing back 24fps vs 60fps there might be a difference, but really good reaction
DRAKO9764 (1 year ago)
So what Skysports is telling us is that Valteri started EXACTLY when the lights went out. As there has to be some reaction time to actually launch the car one might say and be 100% right that Valteri anticipated the start, as a 0 seconds reaction time is physically impossible without anticipation. As far as the FIA F1 rules go, anticipating the start is illegal, and must be punished. So, thank you very much FIA for once again bending rules for Mercedes! Great job being impartial!
DRAKO9764 (1 year ago)
Classic Kvyat...playing curling instead of F1
Tommy Fresh (1 year ago)
His reaction time from the lights going out to the car moving was 0.2s not a jump start.
Tommy Fresh (1 year ago)
They have sensors on the track and in the cars. They say 0.2s more reliable than 60FPS video footage.
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
Which is clearly bullshit because the car already started moving before the lights even went out.
tomcatm16 (1 year ago)
Yes, Bottas jumped the start, but he got lucky the rules defined it wasn't a penalty.
alex wilson (1 year ago)
OMFG IT WASNT A JUMPSTART he did it in the starting box which is LEGAL everyone who said it isn't are 10 year olds who watch the odd race
wbsfoo (1 year ago)
false start ruels needs to be revised
Aljosa g (1 year ago)
yes he did
TJ32 (1 year ago)
The lights are randomized. He was just incredibly lucky he dropped the clutch right when the lights went out. Why should that be illegal? If you haven't left your start box and you time it perfectly I don't see why that should be penalized. With the random lights it should be impossible to do that on purpose. Maybe the FIA could make the window larger (like 2-7s) and then it would be even more unlikely to anticipate the start. But Bottas got lucky and nailed it, there's nothing illegal about it.
SennaStar (1 year ago)
It does not include anything about being able to move on the start line, so back to you !!
TJ32 (1 year ago)
Just find them yourself. Google "F1 sporting regulations 2017" the PDF on the FIA website pops right up.
TJ32 (1 year ago)
The FIA is a joke more often than not and has no consistency whatsoever in their judgement, but this particular case isn't a judgement. There's a sensor on the car. They have to allow some slight movement because the cars move during the start procedure and they have no control over it. So they have some amount of movement tolerance to prevent 85% of the grid from triggering false start alarms at every single race. Bottas' movement was less than that slight allowance, and in fact in order to see any prior movement at all we're having to break the video down into single frames so this is all a bit ridiculous. It was a once in a lifetime lucky start, if one tried to replicate this 1000 times one would get 1000 5s time penalties.
SennaStar (1 year ago)
A very Political response but thanks anyway. Maybe the FIA should get Martin Brundle fitted to the cars, would be a lot more fun and a lot more TRANSPARENT
TJ32 (1 year ago)
Rule 36.13 "Either of the penalties under Articles 38.3c) or d) will be imposed for a false start *judged using an FIA supplied transponder* (ie. not Martin Brundle) which must be fitted to the car as specified." Who gives a shit what Martin Brundle says?
JayRoo (1 year ago)
I love all you experts who scrub your home tv box back and forth think that you have a more accurate measurement for this situation than the FIA with all the sensors and car data.
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
We don't. It's just that the FIA has a very questionable idea of what a jump start actually is, an idea that doesn't comply with what any sane person thinks.
Conner Osmon (1 year ago)
Yep, perfect start but lucky. But there is something called reaction time and I certainly didn't see it. He definitely reacted just, just, just before the lights went off...... and by the time, lights went off, his car reacted exactly at the the same time compare to lights. Don't forget cars starts at 0mph not at 1mph,. And if you add human reaction time to it, everything becomes clear. Well - Conclusion : In theory, its a perfect start, as F1 see's the car not human reaction as in sprint. But practically its a jump start. But I don't blame him, he just anticipated well. But it wouldn't work always.......
5unodostres (1 year ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZqe_bJuyxA Bitch Please
Agnis Rozitis (1 year ago)
Yes, it was a perfectly legal start from Bottas, since he was still in his start box, but these 2 frames doesn't show anything, except his movement, they don't show what happens in previous frames. Again - it was a perfect guess, hats off, but don't lie about these 0.201 seconds, because it's hell of a long time, even my reaction can be better.
Algy Chin (1 year ago)
I know.. just like Bruce Lee's punches.. you need a high speed camera to record that..
Laci Goy (1 year ago)
when the field started he was at the corner :) this start was acceptable, but he needed a fortune. the race not depended on that.
Jordan Malcolm (1 year ago)
1. If Valtteri didn't jump the start, he definitely anticipated the start which took away the human element of it and 2. If was bigger than 2 meters, it was about 10
Jordan Malcolm (1 year ago)
Also could you get a shot onboard Valtteri when the lights dim
Jasperthemost (1 year ago)
Bottas was just very lucky, it wasn't a fast reaction at all. He just guessed and got it exactly right.
T5766L (1 year ago)
Why are we even talking about this!! move on.
DUKEOFSOUNDS (1 year ago)
After all that Analysis. It's now safe to say that's the most perfect start in F1 history
Powerfran (1 year ago)
the limit for a start is 0, 400 seconds reaction, bottas start's is 0, 200 seconds so he do a jump start
TJ32 (1 year ago)
That's completely made up. Unless you can post a source for 0.4s.
Apple King (1 year ago)
Its not are perferct start
3XICS (1 year ago)
Let me make this clear, Mercedes doesn't get penalties, jump start, cut corners, take out drivers, NOTHING ever happens, meanwhile the rest get fucked with every occasion given.
Nikias Johannes Thomsen (1 year ago)
Calm down people! Remember this year's China Gp when Vettel wasn't even inside his starting box before the lights went off and there was NO penalty for him
88Nikolajsen (1 year ago)
Show it in super slow
Dessert Storm (1 year ago)
in a sprint, reaction time is factored into false starts. human reaction time is around 100 mSec. So if a sprinter leaves the blocks in less than 100 mSec after the gun goes off, it's deemed to be a false start. Because he did not react to the gun, he anticipated it. Seems to be the case here also. However if I'm not mistaken the lights go out at a fixed pace in F1 rather than being controlled by a human, so predicting it seems to be a logical and fair thing to do.
Spencer Matthews (1 year ago)
What a boss! I have no idea why people talk so much shit about Bottas. He clearly has a lot of skill.
RisingSunKustoms (1 year ago)
awesome reaction time!!!
my nigga (1 year ago)
best start ever
Hunter Simon (1 year ago)
FIA just announced a new rule: If your favorite driver isn't winning, then whoever happens to be in first position is cheating. (I'm saying that as a Ferrari fan)
Dylan gittinger (1 year ago)
He won't be able to do this again in his entire carrier
Mark Bourn (1 year ago)
his reaction time was within human range so it was the perfect start
Ryan Riel (1 year ago)
concept of an anticipated start is funny considering motor racing is full of anticipation
cooler mann (1 year ago)
maybe he predicted the start and got lucky by starting just as the lights got green
freeman29pt (1 year ago)
Jump Start. He must be penalized for the next race
Mark Woldin (1 year ago)
Who is the commentator? He's superb.
Sion Williams (1 year ago)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwrCDZnGevw here,s a better view of bottas jump start
Lotus cola (1 year ago)
One frame is 0.041, which is way below human reactions and according to the footage he's not a frame behind he's within that frame in reaction, so he was at best 0.041 slower than the lights. The only reason his start was not a false start is the slack on the system, the system can't be too sensitive otherwise any movement and cars slightly mis positioned would trigger the false start.
Drivestyle27 (1 year ago)
Learn the rules donuts
TheKeeeks97 (1 year ago)
Just the luckiest start i ve ever seen cause nobody can react so fast but it's allowed so: congrats, well done
smokyislay (1 year ago)
There is a sensor on the track and sensor on the car. Since the car can make a little nudge when you adjust the cluch and get ready for the start, the sensor allows a little flex by the design when you position your car to the grid. So: a) If you look the video frames and judge by that, yes, he did jump b) He was still at the accepted area when lights went off, so according to FIA rules, it was not a jump start So everyone here is right, but he got away since this is how the rules say. FIA rules overrule internet judges. Also you need to remember that any driver can try to do the same but the chances are they more likely fail to do so - Valtteri included, if he ever tries it again. So it's playing with very high stakes and it was a dream start for Valtteri.
Arne Weise Weise (1 year ago)
He is NOT reacting to the lights out, he is anticipating it, FACT! Right or wrong is not for me to say but let's keep it real and honest shall we, I get it if you understand nothing about frame rates and suck at logic then perhaps the fantasy could be kept going, otherwise. Either way we need more stable rulings for all teams, Merc sure seam to be let off for just about anything these days unless extremely obvious, like a piece on Hams cars maybe that nobody can explain way as an illusion, a trickery of the cam and lights maybe?
Optikification (1 year ago)
just because cry baby Vettel lost out he had to make an excuse.
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
An excuse that was completely justified, as we later found out. And it was actually Ricciardo who first put that suspicion to notice. Sorry.
Keegan Abreu (1 year ago)
Race stewards doing their best to give their boy a real chance at the Championship.Unfortunately Vettel is also battling off track bias.
X (1 year ago)
Anticipation Level 3000!! Good Start!
Kemas Trimukti (1 year ago)
100% bottas did a jumpstart
wan ZR (1 year ago)
perfect start not the jump start
Robyn (1 year ago)
Here come the cry baby Vettel fans.. he's fans are just as annoying as him.
Pedro Costa (1 year ago)
Vettel eh um lixo
andy (1 year ago)
that was the SECOND frame after the car started moving. the previous frame shows the car has moved and the red lights still on.
Mark Webber (1 year ago)
journalists are so stupid ..
pingoochnl (1 year ago)
There is a 10 one thousandth of a second toleration in the rules so there is no point speculating
haxpet (1 year ago)
This is quiet easy. He was so lucky to get the start perfect with in the limits of what the system will accept. The system allows the car do move a little and the reaction time can't be below 0.200. And Bottas had a reaction time of 0.201. But to be fair, he couldn't get that start again as I'm pretty sure he anticipated when the lights should go out and nailed it perfectly.
Joshua Peifer (1 year ago)
It was Drag Racing like reaction time nothing more nothing less. Even if he did "jump start" it's so hard to tell that giving him a penalty would just be asinine. It wasn't jumping it was just better reaction then everybody else.
XandiOfficial (1 year ago)
hahahahah nice bullshit, go that movie more back and you will see he jumped start ! mercedes and FIA + sky <3
Elsa Grey (1 year ago)
bottas hit raikkonen in baku, unpunished.. bottas jump start in Austria, unpunished.. something not right here....
Admiral_Awesome (1 year ago)
he didn't jump start according to FIA telemetry
Arsenius Sofian (1 year ago)
bwoolno (1 year ago)
Maghdie Fife (1 year ago)
He jumped it. No doubt. If his wheel moved the exact milisecond the light changed, means he released the clutch before the lights changed as there is minimal delay in response to throttle and gear change - that change is not instant - so no way he changed gear on the light and the car moved at exactly that split milisecond. No way. Great anticipation? Unlikely - He is lucky the light changed just as his car moved.
rounick28 (1 year ago)
100% jump start. Fucking RoboCop couldn't start that perfectly.
mikey forester (1 year ago)
sick of all the Ferrari fan boys in the comments winging about the start it was perfect end of your making more fuss about it than vettel ramming Hamilton and getting away with it and vettel kept trying to get something out of it I hate that shit beat him over the next 70 odd laps than Mr 4 time champion instead of being a little bitch vettel really is a fucking little baby and people go on about Hamilton if you ask me there al a bunch of rich boy wimps bottas is one of the only ones I like the mans fast looks like vettel going to do a whole lot more winging before the season over good love to watch him squirm cheating German git
mikey forester (1 year ago)
skkulldetta good point cant argue there
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
Loads of technology that doesn't measure jump starts the way it should. Hell, the FIA even *confirmed* themselves that Bottas technically jumpstarted, his car started moving 0.06 seconds before the lights were out. But it, quote, "wasn't in the reaction window of their sensors", and therefore went unpunished. Absolute bullshit, but what do you expect, it's the FIA, Ferrari and Mercedes can pull whatever crap they want without being properly punished. Vettel should've gotten a DSQ for the stuff he pulled in Baku.
mikey forester (1 year ago)
and who's the baby you lot are the ones that cant except nothing I am simply pointing it out
mikey forester (1 year ago)
it wasn't for fuck sake it was bang on perfect otherwise F.I.A. would have done something they have loads of technology at there hands to help these day as well let me guess you're a Ferrari fan that boy was gone no arguments I bet you wouldn't think that if vettel had got that start biased pricks everywhere
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
Look, you can complain about Vettel and Ferrari like a crybaby all day long, still doesn't change the fact that this was a jump start.
AL (1 year ago)
That was definitely a jump start. It was so unfair. I will not watch F1 anymore.
Dzonnny (1 year ago)
And Vettel cry in another GP - (VET: this is jump start) - PERFECT START BOTTAS. So amazing.
Barry Buddon (1 year ago)
I don’t get why people still go on about these things. The stewards would have had more camera angles and data from the car and lights than anyone else in the world, and they decided he didn’t jump the start.. so why keep asking a question you already know the answer to???
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
Because there is a huge difference between what the FIA thinks is a jump start and what a sane person with eyevision thinks is a jump start?
furionese (1 year ago)
Starting lights switch was connected to Botta's clutch leaver via WiFi - he releases the clutch, all lights go out - it's as simple as that :P
Pub Sen (1 year ago)
The important frames before are not shown! 1-2 frames before the tire is moving too, with red lights on! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UocQFjqIvZk
Jussi Hämäläinen (1 year ago)
yeah start like that has nothing to do with reaction time, he just got lucky with his timing or something. its not like he all the sudden got super human skills after taking normal starts for years. also finnish tv showed better slow motion where you could clearly see car moving before lights went out. still no jumpstart cuz of FIA rules and sensors and whatnot
derbigpr500 (1 year ago)
What none of you clearly take into account is the fact that the reaction time is apparently 0.2 seconds, but the car started moving EXACTLY in the same frame when the lights went out. Now, I checked that, analyzed frame by frame on a 60 fps 1080p broadcast, so one frame is 1 second divided by 60, meaning 0,016 seconds. If the car started moving within 0,016 seconds from the moment the lights turned off, then where is the 0.2 second reaction time? There is no reaction time. He released the clutch BEFORE the lights went out. When you react to something, you brain has to process the input data and then send out signals to the muscles, to release the clutch with his finger, and then it takes a couple of miliseconds for the clutch to grab and for the car to actually start moving. So even if his reaction time was 0.2 seconds from the moment lights went out, the car would actually start moving 0.3-0.4 seconds after the lights went out, meaning, that would be 15-25 FRAMES after the lights went out. Even if it's exactly 0.2 seconds as they said, that's already 12 frames people. TWELVE FRAMES in which the car should be standing still and lights are turned off,. but that didn't happen. The car started moving in the SAME FRAME as the light went out. That's impossible, that is medically impossible, because it takes longer for the signals to travel from the eye into the brain, let alone process it and then react to it, and then to send signals to muscles, for the impulse to reach the muscle, for the muscle to react to it, etc.. So yea, it was ABSOLUTELY a jumped started, or at least an anticipated start, which is also illegal. Did that win him the race though? Not really. Yes, he gained a couple of milliseconds at the start, maybe a meter or two, but at the end, he was leading the entire race, and won. It wouldn't have affected him too much if he had a normal start, he'd still get into the first corner as the leader. What people should whine about is how Perez let Bottas through easily, but he blocked off Vettel under the blue flag in the fast S corners a couple of laps before the end, and moved Vettel back from DRS zone to 1,4 seconds, which is literally what saved Bottas, because if Perez had moved, Vettel would have overtaken Bottas during that lap or the one after, he was 0.6 seconds behind Bottas before they reached Perez, and 1.4 seconds behind after the passed him.
hans gerber (1 year ago)
can anyone explain to me where the stewards, or the production got those 0.201 seconds reaction time from? when there is only 1 frame between lights out and tyre movement, which is obviously significantly less than the above mentioned 0.201.
Aidan McMillan (1 year ago)
he didn't jump start it was an amazing start
Wout Martens (1 year ago)
You have to applaud the guy, the start was spot on and he managed to defend his lead for the entire race. He won it fairly 👌 (coming from a ferrari fan)
Aimar Arteaga Itoiz (1 year ago)
Jump start
Lenny B (1 year ago)
You can´t judge if its a jump start if you only give us 2 frames... come on
Sunsence Navale (1 year ago)
Perfect start from Valtteri! Terrible car controle from Danii...again
TheGamerTim (1 year ago)
Did he get a penalty for jumping the start? No. There's your answer.
Skulldetta (1 year ago)
Oh, the FIA says it's not a jump start, so it must be a fact. The video proof that Bottas started moving before the lights were out is faked, a conspiracy theory made up by Drumpf supporters.
Andreas Pille (1 year ago)
Stoffel had a great start but he lost it because of this accident